Radio fair use?
I received this mail the other day:
"You are relaying our audio stream for the ... app unlawfully. You have not asked us if you can do this. Remove our station immediately and confirm by return email within 24 hours.
If our station is not removed we will lay a complaint with Google Play to have your app removed for breach of copyright."
I thought the radios from shoutcast were free to use. Where is the limit of what you can do? Is this person right? What can I do to avoid this kind of unsettling situation?
"You are relaying our audio stream for the ... app unlawfully. You have not asked us if you can do this. Remove our station immediately and confirm by return email within 24 hours.
If our station is not removed we will lay a complaint with Google Play to have your app removed for breach of copyright."
I thought the radios from shoutcast were free to use. Where is the limit of what you can do? Is this person right? What can I do to avoid this kind of unsettling situation?
Comments
The big problem is with the radios violating copyrights and you broadcasting streams that are broadcasting violating material. It is a funny situation, really, as radio owners are defending their illegal streams legally, so you face ignorant radio owners who might actually send you legal letters (and worse, if they are legal and hold copyrights they actually can!) and potential bigger risks of broadcasting actual copyrighted material. Do you think a radio with 50 listeners have licenses for that Taylor Swift song? And EVEN IF THEY DID, why would you think it transfers onto you without having signed any agreements or paying royalties? Negative to both.
The real situation is that you are not being caught by the big copyright holders solely because they're onto bigger fish, but if they do, you might be in trouble if someone actually wants to bring it, because they have all the laws against you to sue you for copyright violations and damages.
Regardless, Shoutcast apps are double trouble - against the law and pissing off people who are doing things against the law yet are ignorant enough to threaten YOU, but yeah I know how easy it is to make those apps. Made it easier to take them down.
While most copyright holders would send you a cease & desist, they can also sue you for damages, which in case of music or pictures, can be thousands of dollars per creation that they are likely to be granted. Fair use is an affirmative defense - it means it is to be proven by you in court and is not likely to fly for an app that contains material that you know you did not obtain rights to and you publish to an app store and even worse, likely monetize.
I don't want to scare anyone but it is important to know sooner rather than later. The fact that an app is all fine on the Play Store now does not mean that publishing copyrighted material in your app is fine, it just means it was flying below radar of those who actually could get money out of you using their material without their permission. Secondly, permission of a stream owner to include it in your app does not grant you copyrights or licenses to broadcast the actual content of the stream.
Reading up about it made me take a step back as Andromo's activities seem to encourage usage of third party material and make it harder to implement your actual own functionality, but there is still plenty you can do using your own material. Using your own material and functionality is the only way (apart from obtaining rights/permissions to every picture/song) to have a good night's sleep and peace of mind that you're not going to receive a legal letter in you inbox.
Colinadams, thank you also for your clarification, the Word analogy really says it all. Having been a previous user of YouTube, I knew the kind of trouble you can get in with their videos, but I never used Shoutcast before Andromo, so I just jumped in naively and started using their engine; I should have known better... Lesson learned, thank you both again...
If you use someone's content in your app, the angry e-mails are normal, some legal threats are normal, since some people learned that starting out nice is less effective and sometimes a waste of time if he has to deal with more than one person using his stuff here or there. It is at least recommended in many "how to deal with people using my trademark/copyrighted material without permission" articles on the internet.
I have never had any problem with Shoutcast stuff. Actually, many stations owners have reached to me to include their station in my app and/or make separate app for them alone, with them giving me full permission.
Would you be kind enough to tell me which station was the one that caused you trouble? I might have them added somewhere and I would like to remove them.
Thanks
@Anteos, fyi, the radio that gave me the startle is called Sleep Radio. Thank you for your comments, it's good to know that one finds all kind of stances out there; maybe I will ask on a one on one basis to the radio stations if they are OK with my apps, and if so I will republish.
With Shoutcast radios I either did not receive permissions, they were playing copyrighted material (and were tiny, not much potential), they had no contact information, they wanted most of the revenue in return or I received no responses, thus I gave up on the idea. I am pretty sure if to make legally, you would have to find a cooperative owner and be 100% sure he has the rights to content he streams, which takes a long time and in best case you'd make an app just for that one tiny radio stream, basically. I think you made the right choice. In the short run, it's all nice that the app seems to be doing good, but in the long run if you look on the internet for people who posted their radio apps longer than a year or two ago, you will see that their links often lead to now terminated Play accounts.
Heck, even the "App showcase" in this forum - when I was browsing it and whenever I felt like "this one might be violating some rights" and clicked the link, it led to a disabled account or app taken down. Noticing that was a good experience too.
It takes significantly longer to make apps using own or 100% legal content, they may generate less downloads initially, but it is very much worth it because in the long run they will be there, and will give you satisfaction and peace of mind.
http://www.contentfac.com/copyright-infringement-penalties-are-scary/
https://gigaom.com/2012/09/19/copyright-trolls-2-0-image-sites-embrace-righthaven-tactics/
http://blog.webcopyplus.com/2011/02/14/legal-lesson-learned-copywriter-pays-4000-for-10-photo/
Thank you for the information - as far as I recall, this station is not added in my apps.
I was completely out of ideas for a long while and still take extra time to actually produce something. One of the reasons I came here, curious what kind of apps people are actually making.
Back in 2012, when I was a total noob, I solved the content creation part by doing apps in a partnership. The costs were down by 50% and I could still learn a lot. Eventually I bought out my share from my business partner (who wasn't that keen on apps but was willing to give a try) and proceeded on my own, once I got some experience under my belt.